Marc Elias: Devan Barber, welcome to Defending Democracy.

Devan Barber: Hi Marc, great to be here.

Marc Elias: It's great to have you on. I love having my friends on and that's what you are. So here we are talking about the U.S. Senate. But before we get into all of that, you have been a research director. You have been a campaign manager. You have been in the political department of the DSCC. I read someplace you may have even worked on the Obama campaign, which was news to me. So why don't you start by telling us how you got into politics.

Devan Barber: Well, I'm glad you're still learning new things about me, Marc. I have always loved politics from a young age. My parents were both good Democrats, so it was a big part of my growing up. But in 2008, a very fun cycle to work in Democratic politics, I got a job on a campaign right out of college. I worked for Kay Hagan from North Carolina as a researcher. And it just totally captivated me. '08 was a great cycle for that because I was like, "Wow, campaigns are amazing. You just win by huge margins. Everyone has a ton of fun. Let's keep doing this." 

So I guess the rest was history. I worked in Kay's office briefly, but then was a researcher for the 2012 Obama re-elect, which was a great experience, and worked for Kay's re-elect in 2014, and then eventually made my way to the DSCC, first as a researcher, then the research director, and then made the pivot into the broader world of campaigns, which eventually led to managing and then spending many more years here at the DSCC. But I was thinking, Marc, that this is the fourth time I have done this particular cycle of Senate races, because it was that '08 race, the 2014 re-elect, then in 2020, I managed the North Carolina Senate race, and here we are again now in 2026.

Marc Elias: Wow. So let's just sort of take a pause on that for a moment, because one of the things that a lot of people have commented on is how much narrower the map has gotten over time. If you remember, like in 2008, I suspect the Senate map was much broader, generally.

Devan Barber: We had 60 votes!

Marc Elias: And so every cycle, it feels like it gets a little bit narrower and you are focusing on fewer and fewer Senate races. And I'm wondering if that has changed the DSCC or your job or your perception of how campaigns are run.

Devan Barber: I think in Senate races, we always think about how we work with the top of the ticket, but also outperform and overperform either the top of the ticket or the sort of baseline dynamics of a given state. You could point, you could see that in 2008 even with Kay Hagan's victory, but even in 2024 where Dems had a rough election night. In Senate races, we overperformed in every race across the map and won four Senate races in states that Trump carried.

Marc Elias: And that was Wisconsin, Nevada, Arizona, and Michigan.

Devan Barber: There you go. Great memory. I know it feels like 10 lifetimes.

Marc Elias: It does. And you overperformed in the one that you didn't win, right?

Devan Barber: By huge margins. So even in the races where we ultimately didn't win, our candidates overperformed, but also Republican candidates underperformed by pretty significant margins, which was part of the overall strategy. So I think that is a dynamic we do see consistently in Senate races. Certainly, there's a lot of lessons learned from last cycle, but that is something we certainly carry forward looking at future cycles.

Marc Elias: Okay, I want to talk specifically about the 2026 cycle because that is what everyone is paying attention to. You guys had some very big news and a rollout that was in close proximity to it. You got a top tier candidate in Alaska in Mary Peltola, former House member. But you also rolled out a broader sort of strategy memo or strategy public presentation about how you are going to win in 2026. So I'm going to give you one shot to give me the overall argument. But then we're going to go into the specific races. So what's the overall narrative?

Devan Barber: I'm glad you asked and I will get to the states, but I want to spend a minute on kind of the broader electorate and the dynamics we've been seeing leading up to having a path back to the majority, which we do see. We always know a midterm cycle is a bit of a backlash against the party in power. That's a historical dynamic we've seen time and time again.

What we've seen play out over the course of this cycle are a couple indicators that that backlash is really building and that there is sort of an electorate movement towards Democrats this cycle. One is, of course, the president's approval ratings. 

We've seen those steadily decline over the course of the year. That is a piece of the puzzle. It's certainly not everything and certainly not when you're looking at the Senate map. But the economic indicators and where we've seen the numbers move on the economy and specifically on cost of living is a big factor. And it's not just that voters are tagging Trump and by extension, the Republican Party with what they view as sort of a stagnant economy or economy that's even moving in the wrong direction.

It's that as Democrats, we've also improved our standing on cost of living issues and on healthcare specifically. We've grown our trust advantage on that issue, but also raised that issue in terms of where it falls for voters in importance. So that is a huge shift we've seen over the course of a year, certainly compared to the end of the last cycle.

And it's not just that the economy's maybe been moving in the wrong direction and Republicans are just the party in power, so they're holding the bag. It's that, what have Republicans done with that power? It's cut Medicaid, it's Trump's tariffs, it's this ACA subsidies issue. So there's a lot of issues swirling that feed into this growing discontent. And then the last point I'll mention is just in studying the electorate itself. We all saw over the course of last year special elections and off-year elections that showed huge Democratic enthusiasm, lagging Republican enthusiasm, and swing voters really moving in our direction. 

So if you look at all of the special elections over the course of '25, we are overperforming to at least the extent we were overperforming in the 2018 cycle, in that off year. It's actually a little bit more. So we're looking at an environment that is at least as favorable as 2018. And we've seen some pretty dramatic overperformances. We've seen that those same dynamics play out even in the statewide races in, for example, Virginia and New Jersey, where again, that combination of democratic enthusiasm with swing voters actually moving towards us came together and gave us big margins of victory.

Marc Elias: And that was true, by the way, in two statewide elections in Georgia too, right? 

Devan Barber: Yeah, it's two state-level races that don't get a ton of attention, but you're right. It's even in states that are a little more traditionally red, states like Georgia, you even saw it in a state like Mississippi. So a really important dynamic that brings us to January of 2026. And that now, especially with the candidate recruitment and sort of the pieces we put on the board, we do see a real path back to majority. So I'll give my nutshell of this and then curious to know what races you'd want to dig into more. Of course, any path back to the majority starts with keeping Georgia in our hands. So that's where we start.

Marc Elias: Let's back up for a second. We’re going to do some math here. So the current Senate breakdown is...

Devan Barber: We have 47 seats. Republicans have 53.

Marc Elias: Okay, so it's 47-53. The first thing you're talking about is in the 47, the seats we need to keep. So go ahead.

Devan Barber: Exactly. That's a great way to look at it. And that is actually how we look at it. We can't build on what we have unless we protect what we have. First and foremost, it's Georgia. Senator Ossoff's our one incumbent running in a state Trump won last cycle. So we have to protect Georgia. And then we also look at some of our open seats, particularly in Michigan and New Hampshire. These are seats we have to protect.

Republicans may talk about expanding their offensive targets deeper into our states. I don't think that is...

Marc Elias: I don't think Minnesota is going to be for that. As long as I've been doing this, Republicans have been telling us that Minnesota is about to flip. I think they have safely taken Minnesota off the board.

Devan Barber: Here's the thing. For states that Trump didn't win last cycle, to win this cycle in a Trump midterm, when the headwinds are against you, when that Trump coalition that typically does not come out to vote without him on the ballot is gonna be hard to get out to vote... As people who are maybe not that good at math, Marc, it's hard to articulate what that path to victory looks like, but Republicans will try and we'll let them try. So that's what our protect states kind of look like. And then you start to map out how do you add to 47 to get to 51? 

Marc Elias: Here we go. Here's the math, everyone.

Devan Barber: I need a whiteboard or something. So what that looks like at this stage is North Carolina, Maine, Ohio, Alaska.

And then there's a couple other states that are very much on our radar. I'll point out Iowa and I'll point out Texas, largely for the very expensive, very divisive Republican primary brewing there. So that is what the path looks like and happy to talk more about specific states.

Marc Elias: We're going to talk about specific states. But before we get into the individual states, on the themes that you're talking about, it occurred to me that you guys are talking about affordability and there are elements in the legacy media and elsewhere who want to say, "All they do is talk about affordability." Have you ever heard of a guy from New York City who ran for mayor on affordability? You know what I mean? Like, how come he's a genius talking about affordability and everybody is like, "Why are the Democrats talking about affordability?"

Devan Barber: Honestly, we saw it in races across the board last cycle. And it looks different depending on the campaign, of course. It looks different in a big urban area, a big city. But you also saw Abigail Spanberger talk about affordability. You saw Mikie Sherrill talk about affordability in their own way for their own...

Marc Elias: Right? I had Mikie Sherrill on my podcast and literally I couldn't get her to talk about anything other than affordability. You can go back and watch it. I'm asking questions about democracy and she's telling me what the cost of coffee beans are for the diners in New Jersey. She ran a campaign on affordability. People come on my podcast to talk about democracy. She came on to talk about affordability and kudos to her. She ran a great race. 

And you're exactly right. I live in Virginia. And that is also true in Virginia. The dominant theme not just in the governor's race, but Democrats did very well in the state legislature in Virginia. And the dominant theme was an affordability issue as it relates to Virginia.

Devan Barber: Well, if I can make a bold claim, these issues aren't totally distinct. If you care about democracy and if you care about electing Democrats, it's important for Democrats to appeal to the voters that they're trying to represent and to really listen to what those voters are saying. We're now building on the ground voter contact operations that are going to hear directly from voters now that we're in the on-year and what we're hearing from people that we talk to is this cost of living crisis.

And so it's important for candidates to hear that and to really listen and then to articulate what they're going to do about it. And all of that leads to hopefully victories in November and then maybe we are having a different conversation about democracy at that time.

Marc Elias: We're going to talk about democracy when we get through the states, but I do want to go through the states. Since you are a friend, I'm going to let Dealers Choice here, you pick the first state, then I'll pick one.

Devan Barber: You know what? I will pick where I started. The path back to the majority starts with making sure we keep Georgia in our hands. We know Georgia is a very competitive state. This will be a barn burner of a race. But at this stage, Republicans have a couple big problems on their hands. The first is that Jon Ossoff's campaign has built kind of an incredible operation and has just seen a surge in grassroots support, both in Georgia and across the country through grassroots donations, and is in a very strong position at this stage in the cycle.

The other problem Republicans have is that Governor Kemp's decision not to run for Senate in Georgia teed up what is now a messy three-way primary between two MAGA warriors and Derek Dooley, who's the former failed Tennessee coach. 

Marc Elias: It’s "Crazy MAGA," it's "Proud MAGA," and it's "Scared MAGA." Let’s just be clear. I don't know who this coach is, but he's just one of them. The media tries to act like somehow there is a distinction. When you tell me there’s these three people in Georgia and there's two MAGA and another MAGA — he's just a scaredy-cat MAGA!

Devan Barber: 100% and Marc, save that energy. There's this messy three-way primary there. It doesn't seem like Trump is gonna intervene. Who knows, that could always change, but at this point he hasn't. And the problem is whoever comes out of that primary — and this is kind of getting to your point — that person is stuck with the baggage of skyrocketing healthcare premiums in Georgia, of the Trump tariffs that have raised the cost of goods. So whoever comes out of that primary is gonna have the baggage of, again, what Republicans have been doing with their power. 

So, again, it's gonna be a very competitive race. We will need every Democrat in Georgia to vote, et cetera. But at this point in the cycle, we do feel good about where we are, and Republicans have a couple big problems.

Marc Elias: Yeah, let me be clear. Whoever comes out of the primary, I promise you this. Number one, they're going to be an election denier. Number two, they're going to be against health care. And number three, they're going to be in favor of seizing Greenland by force. There is no rational lane that anyone gets through a primary. They all eventually wind up in the same place. 

You did an easy state. I'm going to do a hard state. Let's talk about Maine because there's nothing that angers me more than the fact that Susan Collins, speaking of MAGA that gets away with seeming like a moderate. It's crazy. She enables all of the terribleness. Susan Collins is the best 49th vote that you could ever want. She's the person who will provide Democrats the vote when it doesn't matter, but she will never be the vote to stand up to Donald Trump. She is a Trump enabler through and through. So we gotta beat Susan Collins. Tell me we are gonna beat Susan Collins.

Devan Barber: Preach, Marc, preach. Yes. The short answer is yes. Here's why. Susan Collins is in a fundamentally different position running for reelection in 2026 than she's ever been in the past. And look, we have tried in the past. We've tried. We've all lived through previous attempts. Here's why 2026 is different. 

First, going back to some of the points I made about the electorate in a Trump midterm cycle: Susan Collins has never had to run in a Trump or in a midterm when Republicans are the party in power in modern times. It's been more than 20 years. So the natural political environment is tougher than she's ever experienced.

That's step one. Step two, her approval ratings are so much worse this time around than they were when she ran for reelection in 2020. And you can see it in different public polling, you can see it in private polling. If you look at Morning Consult, which is a public data set that has been around for a while, she has both the high watermark of disapproval and low watermark of approval in Morning Consult's polling. So she is in a tougher spot just from how voters perceive her.

And the third is exactly the point you just made. This is a very tough environment for Susan Collins to try to keep together that coalition of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents to vote for her when she voted for RFK and Tulsi Gabbard, when she allowed these Medicaid cuts to go through, when she's totally given away her power as appropriations chair, which is how she's historically run for reelection in Maine. So she is going to have a much harder time making that same argument and attempting to cobble together that coalition. So I do feel we have a real shot in Maine. It is different from last time. I'm not saying it's a cakewalk. It's not. But we have a real path to beat Susan Collins.

Marc Elias: Can you orient people who are not familiar with Maine. How should they think about Maine? Like is it a Democratic state? Is it a purple state?

Devan Barber: Yeah, it's a fair question because it is a unique state and right now Maine has a Republican senator and an independent senator who caucuses with Democrats but runs as an independent. And has a democratic governor and has voted democratic at the presidential level for at least 30 years. So there is that kind of swinginess to Maine. So we are peeling off voters who have probably voted Democrat at the presidential level. But these are folks who, again, have voted for a Republican and an independent for Senator. So it's a bit of a purple state. The interesting thing is, the governor is running for Senate, and she is the only Democrat who has won a statewide office in Maine in the last 20 years. So it's just an interesting indication of Maine. Maine is just unique.

Marc Elias: Okay, so I want to go to North Carolina next because it is a very important state for you to win. With Maine, we're at 48. So I think North Carolina will be 49. 

Roy Cooper, the Democratic candidate, is a legendary figure in the state. He was a popular governor. The Republican candidate, Whatley, is the former RNC chair who literally became RNC chair running on a platform of being an election denier. He turned the Republican Party into a voter suppression war machine in 2024. In that sense, I guess, congratulations, Whatley. He did the thing that he said he was going to do. So you have this very, very stark contrast between these two candidates. One who is just viewed as a very successful and effective governor and the other who is a partisan warrior Trump vote suppressor.

Devan Barber: You summarized it perfectly. The candidate contrast in this race is really clear. And one element to the North Carolina Senate race that I always like to bring up and remind people of, is Senator Tillis, who, of course, declined to run for reelection, which teed up this open seat.

Marc Elias: He was a vote suppressor also. People forget. 

Devan Barber: Yes, he declined to run. And again, it was a lifetime ago, but it was because of these Medicaid cuts that Republicans were ramming through the Senate. He had, I guess, been trying to ring the alarm bells to say, number one, this isn't good for people, but also it's not helpful politically. And, I guess it fell on deaf ears and he just decided not to run. So I bring that up because it was such a clear indication to me that, again, what Republicans have done with their power is just so toxic to voters. Michael Whatley is going to carry that baggage with him in addition to the baggage he has just from living his own life and his own career. But he's going to carry the baggage of that because whatever is being done in Washington, he's in lockstep with.

Marc Elias: He was literally the RNC chair. He can't separate himself.

Devan Barber: Right, exactly. So again, I think the candidate contrast is super clear and the sort of the bubbling issue set that voters are telling us they care about is gonna be a huge problem in this race as well.

Marc Elias: Okay, so I'm going to play devil's advocate to all of this for a second. I think there are a lot of Democrats who will say, "I was hearing about North Carolina before I was hearing about Virginia. And I definitely was hearing about North Carolina before Arizona and Georgia. Why is it that North Carolina is always harder than it seems? And why won't that be true this time?"

Devan Barber: Look, some of the other states you mentioned have experienced population changes that have kind of turbocharged the political shift. So, the growing population in Northern Virginia, or a state like Arizona, it's much more sparsely populated. So changes in population can have a much bigger effect. North Carolina is, at the end of the day, a very rural state. It just is.

There's a lot of mid-sized cities, but there's no Atlanta, right? So it is ultimately a very rural state with mid-sized cities throughout. So it is a state where demographic shifts are not just going to result magically in a Democrat winning. This is a state where you need to be a North Carolina candidate. And I think on that score, Governor Cooper is about as North Carolina as anyone can get.

Marc Elias: Alright, so I picked two states now you're up. You're at 49 states by the way, so if I were you I'd pick wisely.

Devan Barber: Oh gosh. You know what? I'm going to go Ohio next. I'll say a couple of things about Ohio. The first is that Sherrod Brown only narrowly lost in 2024 when Trump wildly overperformed. Overperformed by seven points. Only narrowly lost the race. And in a midterm cycle again, where the electorate should be more favorable to Democrats as a baseline, if he can achieve anywhere near that level of overperformance, this is a hugely competitive race. And of course, he is someone who knows his state through and through, is just Ohio to the core.

Marc Elias: And has a lot of credibility on costs and affordability.

Devan Barber: A lot, my gosh, yeah, has always talked about these issues as sort of a core part of his brand. And then the other thing that people forget about Ohio is Ohio is actually a special election. It is on the November ballot, so it's just sort of part of the cycle now, but it is a special election because Jon Husted was appointed. So he carries with him all the same baggage of everyone who's in the Senate voting on things that are harmful to people. 

But he hasn't been through the tough scrutiny of actually running a Senate campaign. He doesn't have the same name identification you would have from being an incumbent. So he doesn't have the same sort of power that comes with incumbency traditionally but does bring with him some of the baggage.

Marc Elias: You know how I know Husted? Because if you look up the leading voting case in the Sixth Circuit, it is Obama for America vs. Husted. Husted tried to open up the polling places for the military, but no one else. And I'm not talking about overseas. I'm talking, you go to the little red schoolhouse in your town and it's fully staffed, but the only people who can vote that day are the military. Even the conservative Sixth Circuit agreed, that's not okay. This is the thing people don't understand. That’s Husted’s backstory. That’s how Republicans came to understand he was one of them. 

And Sherrod Brown, by the way, was former secretary of state. You know what he did? He put voter registration forms on the back of McDonald's placemats. Sherrod is someone who has an A-plus on voting rights. This is a guy who cares about ordinary people in his state, people in his state, unions, cares about affordability, but he gets the voting and he gets the democracy issues in his bones as well. And that is a far cry from Husted. 

So, now you've got to pick another state because you need one more, I think, right? Where are you going?

Devan Barber: We need one more. I'm going to Alaska, Marc. We're going to Alaska. Not easy to go to Alaska, but that's where we're going.

Marc Elias: Can I be honest with you? When I saw that Mary Peltola was running, I had to Google who the Republican senator was in Alaska, and it was Dan Sullivan.

Devan Barber: Gotta be honest, people guess the wrong one often.

Marc Elias: I knew it wasn't Murkowski, right? But I was like, huh, there's a guy named Dan Sullivan who's a Senator from Alaska. And then I looked at him and actually, he and I were at the same law firm for a period of time. Didn’t know him then, don’t know him now. So tell us about Alaska.

Devan Barber: Well, Alaska is very exciting. Look, Alaska is not a race that is always on our map, but in 2026 it absolutely is. It starts with Mary Peltola's incredible overperformance in Alaska. First of all, she's won statewide. She won in 2022…

Marc Elias: Yeah, because it's a state with only one house seat.

Devan Barber: Exactly. The House seat is the whole state. So she has already won statewide. In 2024, similar to the point I made about Senator Brown, she narrowly lost the House race again, but massively overperformed. I mean, Trump won the state by like 13 points. 

Actually I should have mentioned in '22 when she first won, she was, I believe, the largest overperformer of any congressional race. So she just has a very unique brand in Alaska. And you know, this is a state that is very affected by cost of living issues. So all of the issues that are bubbling up in states across the map are absolutely present in Alaska. This is also a state where we've seen a little bit of demographic shift towards Democrats over the years and there's a very independent streak in Alaska. So we feel really, really excited about this opportunity and do feel like this has given us a real path.

Marc Elias: You're 51. I want to say a word about the Alaska race. First of all, you're entirely right that Alaska is different. They're not MAGA Republican.

But one of the early lessons I learned in politics, is that when you are a House member in a single district state, you actually have an advantage that nobody else has because you're actually constantly in front of the voters. Dan Sullivan was on the ballot once six years ago, and Mary Peltola has been on the ballot twice since then. She won a House race and then she narrowly lost the House race. From a voter contact standpoint, they are constantly running for reelection. 

And from the standpoint of the voters, all they know is that that's a name that's very familiar to them. Whereas senators, as you know, always suffer from this thing. They always think they're known by the electorate better than they are, because it's been six years.

Devan Barber: Yeah. It's so interesting that you bring up that point because Mary Peltola is currently the most popular political figure in Alaska. And I think a huge part of that is her brand, of course, but also she has talked to voters consistently for the last four years. So they know her. They like her, but they've also heard from her.

Marc Elias: I'm gonna pick the next state. And it's gonna be Texas because it is a state that a lot of people talk about. There's a lot of excitement across both candidates. I've had Jasmine Crockett on a couple of times, people are very excited about her, and I know people are excited about James Talarico. So it feels like on the candidate side, you can't go wrong. 

On the other side, you have like the most batshit crazy candidate of an election cycle: Ken Paxton. And then you have John Cornyn, who’s totally scared MAGA. By the way, scared MAGA are the most pathetic creatures because you know that in their heart of hearts, they know what they're doing is fucking crazy. But they're doing it. That's John Cornyn. But anyway, why shouldn't we all be more optimistic about this race? Why are you not with me on Texas?

Devan Barber: I don't know if I'm not with you, Marc. Here's what I would say about Texas. The reason it's on our radar and we're watching it closely is the brutal Republican primary playing out. And it's not just the drama. The drama is interesting. But there are two more structural reasons I will give in addition to the drama. The first is the massive amount of money that Republicans have had to spend in Texas to prop up John Cornyn. It's like $50 million. And it is January, which leads me to the next point, these are interrelated. 

The primary is in March. But if no candidate wins a majority of the vote, the primary goes to a runoff, which is the end of May. For our primary, it's two candidates. Chances are one of them will get the majority of the vote and then we'll have our nominee. Great. For Republicans with a three-way primary, it is just very difficult mathematically for one candidate to get a majority of the vote. So they are almost certainly headed towards a runoff, which means that level of spending, we will see if it continues, but chances are it will continue in some form to March and maybe through May. And that is just Republicans dumping more money into one of their own primaries and not into a race attacking a Democrat. 

And if they go to a runoff, then it's not until June that they actually have a nominee who can start pivoting to a general election. So for those two structural reasons and for the drama, we are closely watching Texas and it's a lot of question marks right now. We'll see how the next few months play out, but it's certainly a race that's on our radar.

Marc Elias: Yeah, now there are a lot of races we didn't get to, not because they're not important, but just because we've already gotten 52, so that's okay. We can stop there. Iowa, you mentioned, I would add Florida. I'm actually quite excited by the news there. And look, in a wave year, there are just states that crop up. There are races you just wind up winning.

 But before I let you go, I've got a couple of questions for you. The first is Donald Trump has said, "we shouldn't have midterm elections." He has said we shouldn't have mail-in voting. He wants to get rid of certain voting equipment. Every day he is saying something. How worried are you about the elections, the whole voter suppression, what I do for a living, fighting against?

Devan Barber: It’s worrisome stuff. What I do with that worry is my job. First I talk to you, but you do the work. You just keep doing the work because we have to win in November. But part of it specifically on these issues is a couple things. And obviously you and I work closely on some of these. First, it's wherever the DSCC is needed to sue and go get a victory in court, we're there. And we have.

Marc Elias: And we've done that. By the way, everyone should know these guys fought. I was their lawyer. So we fought like a dog with a bone. And we didn't give up in Pennsylvania and we won a huge victory for people in Pennsylvania that's not in cycle this time. But that goes to show the tenacity of this woman because we continued to go after this ridiculous process in Pennsylvania where they disenfranchise voters who vote by mail because of missing a date on a signature. 

And also, the DSCC under Devan sued over the Trump executive order, we won that. And just recently, I've mentioned to all of you, I've been in the US Supreme Court. That was also because of Devan and the DSCC as well as her sister committees.

Devan Barber: And look, part of what we try to do at the DSCC is think really strategically about where we need to intervene specifically. And you and I talk about this a lot. There are places where, because of the way our organization is built, that we have the ability to get relief nationwide, that we have better standing. There's lots of good work happening everywhere. Lots of groups doing great work. Sometimes it really has to be the DSCC. So we try to lead on that. So one, it's to fight it in the courts. That is a huge component of the strategy.

The other component is, now that we're in the on-year, starting to build our on-the-ground voter contact operations. And of course a big part of that is recruiting volunteers and talking to voters. But a really important part of that is voter access and having a state by state strategy, but also building relationships in state in each battleground state to know when these changes are coming down the pike to be able to kind of fight it at the local level and to educate voters about what the rules are going to be. 

We are in a cycle where the rules change. We have to deal with surprises. And what we have to do is be prepared for whatever is going to come at us and be ready to fight and be as aggressive as possible with the rules as they stand. So it's like shaping the rules and then it is knowing what the rules are and fighting within those parameters as hard as we can.

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